Sign ups are open for the Counter-Strike:Source Ladder. The ladder is on Tuesday Nights.

For more information check out the minisite at:
http://www.igames.org/Laddersites/MiniAboutView.asp?MiniID=107&AssetID=685

I was just curious as how you guys are doing the point system for this. Cuz when I was looking at the standings, I see that we(kFinest) were 3-0, and our points werent the same as the rest of the 3-0 teams. More info on this would be much apreciated.

It uses the ELO system that basis ranking points upon who you won or lost to. (Currently all IGames ladders use this system).

More general information can be found here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELO_rating_system

Basically, beating a lower ranked team 10 times will get you alot less points that beating higher ranked teams 10 times.

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Martin "MrFurious" Kruse
Xtreme Gaming Cybercafe
www.goxgaming.com

Well I understand that, but We play who iGames assigns us.If we had our pick we would play the top teams the whole time and try to get as many points as possible. I mean what would happen if we get assigned to play the lowest ranked teams, we win them all, we're 10-0, but we would be ranked lower than everyone else due to playing lower ranked teams. Basically what I'm getting at, what if this were to happen us. Well thanks for hearing us out, my team was just concerend when they saw the rankings, and wanted to try to understand the situation. So thanks, and look forward to playing everyone.

When creating matches, it's hard to match up teams that are similar in rankings, since there are a limited amount of teams each week.

We try to set it up as random as possible, and have each team only play another team once a night. If you have any suggestions on how to improve the process feel free to email it to me at Loon@igames.org :)

Email sent. Good job to Mission Control who gave us our first lost.

Thease standings are jank. I'm sorry but wow. Face2FaceA is one of the best teams on this ladder and there in 4th, and the 1st place team only has 4wins as to Face2Face's 13-2. Can't iGames just base it off wins and loss'es? That would be so much easier, and teams woulndn't get jipped out of there rightfull spots.

Coach, I can't say that anything will happen right away or anything (or even happen at all), but some of the game center owners have started a discussion about the points on the ladders. So, ther is some discussion going on about how to most fairly award points.

[QUOTE=Coach]Thease standings are jank. I'm sorry but wow. Face2FaceA is one of the best teams on this ladder and there in 4th, and the 1st place team only has 4wins as to Face2Face's 13-2. Can't iGames just base it off wins and loss'es? That would be so much easier, and teams woulndn't get jipped out of there rightfull spots.[/QUOTE]


The ultimate goal is to create a seeding of teams. Maybe that 4-0 team beat face2faceA, so they should be ranked higher.

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Martin "MrFurious" Kruse
Xtreme Gaming Cybercafe
www.goxgaming.com

yep they beat us but they came into the ladder on tuesday? that is not fair for all the kids that have been coming in since the first week, half my guys aren't coming no more, there goes money in my pocket. I think something needs done to make it fair for the people that have been in it from the beginning, I know there is an idea floating around that the winning team gets 2 points and the losers get 1 point, that would make it even from the beginning and if a team comes in the forth week they can but will have to work thier way up and if they do they deserve to be up there then.

robb
face2facecgc.com

Face2Face makes a valid point with a team just joing and stuff like that. I am gald that the point system is being discussed. As for that 2pts for win and 1pts for loss, thats just another way for useing a win loss system, but your still useing your points. Its just hard for me to see point system working for CS. I mean why is it so hard to just base it off wins to loss'es, That way best team wins and you dont have some jobber team join the last3 weeks starting off with fresh points, not loseing a match and taking one of the top spots. Ultimately the decission comes from you guys, I'm just letting you guys know that, thats how my team feels and prolly alot of other teams.

Ultimately, I say Win over Loss'es. Best way to go.

It's interesting that everyone freaks out. Suddenly 4th place out of 50 teams isn't good enough.

Previously we participated in lots of leagues but with constant forfiets, no shows and quitters (and of course with just going win-loss only after a week or 2 no new teams can join at all since they dont have a chance to "catch up" to a teams that play 5-6 matches a week).

Ultimately the winners will be determined by a tournament at the end inviting the top seeded teams and you will have to pretty much win them all to win bigger prizes. I can't see how a team that plays 1 match a week and wins, ie 8-0 lets say, should be ranked lower than a team that goes 0-40 as the simple win-loss points would be assigned would be any fairer to anyone.

In a nutshell, i dont see why it is hard to comprehend the simple fact that, a team you lose to will be ranked higher than you.

Play them again and win, and you will return the favor.

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Martin "MrFurious" Kruse
Xtreme Gaming Cybercafe
www.goxgaming.com

Mr. Furious.....Noted. But 4th place isnt good enough when your trying to win. It's a brightside when your 4 out of 50, but its never good enough for those who want to win. Also I see your point with the whole catch up thing to new teams. That can suck for a new team, But hopefully word about the ladder is out enough and you wont have teams join halfway through. If they complain about having to catch up its there own fault for joining late. I see were your coming from on the whole 8-0 and 0-40 thing. If the team that is 8-0 and played since the beging then fine. He's ranked higher. But lets say Team A, has played since the start and has gone 14-1. Then Team B, Joins halfway through and goes 6-0. Your telling me that Team B, should be ranked higher? Thats the way im interpeting you. Plus you still get seeded teams from win to loss. I dont see the MLB,NBA,NFL under the point system for rank. Here a few idea's thats might help might not idk.

*Have cut-off dates for teams to join, Teams see that, they might join sooner than later.
* certain games are good for the point system, but I dont think that CS is one of those games. Win/Loss is simple and you get all the things you need to get, like seeding and such.
*Have a good map rotation, like cal's map rotaion or something.

You know I love CS, and I have loved partaking in past iGames events. I really hope this league works. I dont doubt anyone that is running it, I do think however that in some areas you went about it all wrong. Furious, Loon I hope you dont take any disrespect from any of this, cuz I dont mean any.

All those examples are "leagues", ie you have a set match and must play the match (NBA, NFL, NHL) or you lose. I have no problem with leagues, but in the past you have 15 teams sign up at first, a few of them go 0-4 or something and stop showing up, so you show up at the lan center for your match, after waiting 30 mins you realize your opponent is going to show and you made the trip for nothing. And in past leagues, even with as much advertising as possible ppl dont show up. Even the "team" we fielded, started on week 2 and only had 2 of the 5 team members show up on Valentine's day (so 2 employees and 1 regular had to fill in). A ladder needs to generate a rank based upon performance vs. the quality of opponent. (Maybe that team is 13-0 from playing winless teams)

The system in use (which could use some tweaking) is the same system to determine seeds for tennis, chess for example. It's not like we made up some random #'s.

In your example, i still dont know why you would think a team that was 5-0 and played a team that is 13-0, and WINS shouldnt be now considered the #1 team to beat?

Anyway, no doubt there will be changes for next season. But i guarrantee if we do a league there will be lots of complaining about no-shows. If we do a win-loss point system there will be a team or 4 that doesnt play because its too late why bother. Trust me everyone screams about something every single league/ladder. :)

I've got some juicy examples for sure.

There have been some good ideas bandied about which will hopefully allow a simple win-loss point system and still allow fairly new teams to have a chance to participate in the final tournament. So we'll see.

The key is: just win!

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Martin "MrFurious" Kruse
Xtreme Gaming Cybercafe
www.goxgaming.com

"It's interesting that everyone freaks out. Suddenly 4th place out of 50 teams isn't good enough." quote from furious!

I am happy to be where both my teams are, they deserve where they are, I am not complaining about that, just that devastation came in just last week and played 4 matches and won all four, and are in first place, and of course if they came in the first week would be there also, but it is not fair for the guys that are on any team from the beginnin coming every week busting thier butt for nothing. this goes for any game center not just mine. we all know the team to beat will be devastation, cal I and all. My two teams are made up of a group of guys that spend a lot of money at my gaming center, as cs:s is the most popular game lately, The importance of the game nights are to attract customers in on slow nights, which has my tuesdays up to 85% more in sales that day. That is what needs to be taken in, if next time we have a ladder a lot of guys may not commit to it.

Robb AKA Jad3F1r3
face2facecgc.com